More proof Man does not Cause Global Warming

[heroray]

COAL MINE SEVEN, Svalbard, Norway (Reuters) - Fossils of a hippopotamus-like creature on an Arctic island show the climate was once like that of Florida, giving clues to risks from modern global warming, a scientist said.

ADVERTISEMENT

Fossil footprints of a pantodont, a plant-eating creature weighing about 400 kg (880 lb), add to evidence of sequoia-type trees and crocodile-like beasts in the Arctic millions of years ago when greenhouse gas concentrations in the air were high.

"The climate here about 55 million years ago was more like that of Florida," Appy Sluijs, an expert in ancient ecology at Utrecht University in the Netherlands, said in Coal Mine Seven on the Norwegian archipelago of Svalbard.

"Where we are now was once a temperate rainforest," he said on Tuesday, at the end of a horizontal mine shaft 5 kms (3 miles) inside a mountain and 300 meters (600 feet) below the surface.

He pointed to a row of footprint impressions found in December in the roof of the mine north of Longyearbyen, the main settlement on the barren treeless Norwegian archipelago 1,000 km (600 miles) from the North Pole.

Sluijs said forests grew in the Arctic when carbon dioxide, the main greenhouse gas, was at about 1,000 parts per million in the atmosphere because of natural swings in the climate.

And he said such concentrations point to risks with surging modern emissions stoked by human use of fossil fuels -- greenhouse gas concentrations are at the highest in at least 650,000 years and rising fast.

"It's a worrying scenario for future global warming," he told a group of students studying climate change. The ancient warming was triggered by natural shifts, perhaps linked to volcanic activity and a thaw of frozen methane.

ICE FREE

Sea levels 55 million years ago were about 100 meters higher than now -- Antarctica was free of ice.

"We are starting processes that will last for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years," he said of modern emissions from burning fossil fuels in power plants, factories and cars.

When Svalbard was hot -- the islands were also close to the North Pole 55 million years ago -- many parts of the globe near the equator would have been too hot for modern plants and animals that have adapted to a modern climate, he said.

Carbon dioxide levels are now at almost 390 per million in the atmosphere, up from 270 before the Industrial Revolution and rising fast. Sluijs said they could reach 1,000 parts per million by 2100 if not held in check.

The footprints were found by chance by two miners. "As far as we know there are only five pantodonts of this type found in the world," said Steve Torgersen, a mining expert.

[whiplash]

People always throwing around the term "greenhouse gases", then they talk about CO2.

Yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas but it is a minor component in the energy equation. Water vapor in the form of clouds "traps" 1000 times more heat energy and prevents the heat from disapating through the atmosphere than CO2 does.

So, since water vapor is responsible for 99.9% of the phenoemon, why are we so concerned about the component that is responsible for 0.1%?

The answer is that those singing this tune have a political agenda.

[Yilar]

Ray did you even read the article?

Let me sum it up quickly using a quote from the article you posted...

Carbon dioxide levels are now at almost 390 per million in the atmosphere, up from 270 before the Industrial Revolution and rising fast. Sluijs said they could reach 1,000 parts per million by 2100 if not held in check.

[XXXTheGoddessXXX]

Greenhouse Gases are the six gases listed in the Kyoto Protocol: carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), nitrous oxide (N2O), hydroflurocarbons (HFCs), perfluorocarbons (PFCs), and sulphur hexafluoride (SF6).

Of these, we(USA) seem to have hydroflorocarbons in check. As for CO2, keep cutting down the forests and paving everything and watch what happens. Also this generation isnt as interested in plants as much as past generations.

I was reading an article that cited animals, mostly cows and other like animals as the leading cause of GW. Cows being the worst since they produce methane and nitrous oxide. The more we eat beef, the more they will grow for our consumption. Basically the article said that a cow was equal to the emissions of a car. Damn now I cant go to Outback for 2 reasons, first their cheesefries and now their steaks.

I think I am going to start telling my kids to not have children so as they wont have to go through what is bound to come. Aside from greenhouse gases, there are even worse things on the horizon IMO.

[Yilar]

xxxthegoddessxxx said:

I was reading an article that cited animals, mostly cows and other like animals as the leading cause of GW. Cows being the worst since they produce methane and nitrous oxide. The more we eat beef, the more they will grow for our consumption. Basically the article said that a cow was equal to the emissions of a car. Damn now I cant go to Outback for 2 reasons, first their cheesefries and now their steaks.

Source?

[Avogadro]

seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/302204_warming02.html?source=rss

thinkprogress.org/2006/09/19/bush-warming-hurricanes/

Even Bush now admits it

www.net.org/warming/

www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6334

Of course he'd never admit it in fron tof his Exxon friends...

[heroray]

Sluijs said forests grew in the Arctic when carbon dioxide, the main greenhouse gas, was at about 1,000 parts per million in the atmosphere because of natural swings in the climate.


I read this too.

Ever Hear that Fairy Tale about "Chicken Little". This global warming scam tops that one By far.

Did You see where Norway was Tropical 55 Million Years ago? Where was Norway on the Globe 55 Million Years ago? With the Earth Ever Changing, Most Scientists think that the Earth was Pangea, but the Plates shifted and the Contintants Divided. My point is, The Earth has been Constantly Warming and Cooling and Changeing. Even Before Man.

[Yilar]

The whole point of the Global warming issue is that increased carbon dioxide equals a warmer planet. Sure other factors play in, but we can't do anything about those.

[jeffmann77]

thank you ray for that clear proof that global warming does not exist. we are truely priviledged to have such a scientific mind post on our forums!

/end sarcasm.

and btw, you do realize that yes, while the planet has at different times had very different average temperatures (yes antarctica was indeed a jungle millions of years ago, no credible scientist would debate that), the difference here is that past changes took place over thousands or millions of years. the changes cited today as "global warming" are taking place over mere decades.

im not a real global warming nut, but I do beleive that it should be a concern. and i find it hilarious that people like you who are certain that it is a farce will resort to claims like "scientists are making it all up to make more money," or "liberals like it because it will allow them to create more government regulation." Come on, get real

but who knows. some researchers actually think that a bit of global warming would be good for the planet, leading to higher global crop yeilds and such (while obviously there would be winners and losers in such a scenario). But alas, im not a scientist. Strangely, neither are you, and the "Rush Limbaugh Global warming is a masive conspiracy" bit is getting old.

p.s. ray get the online sometime, steam and I are lonely

[rodrigom]

Everyone posting here knows that global warming is *not* caused by man.

If that's what you trying to prove ray, congratz.

But now, saying that man does not improve the speed of which this warming is happening, come on... Everyone with more then 2 digits in they age can tell my they self-experience that the summer/winter temperature are different from when they were younger...

[heroray]

Allright Jeffro.

Ill be on tonight.

[zzZhenon]

Hehe there's what one scientist that says Global Warming doesn't exist and everyone falls for it?

If Antarctica wasn't frozen 55 million years ago, was the fact that the poles shift taken into account? Was there a massively huge volacano? Was there a meteorite that hit?

With trillions of people contributing to global warming, how could it not exist? I'm not saying "the world is ending!!" but come on they've been saying this is a growing problem since the '70s and as time goes on it's going to continue to snowball.

[XXXTheGoddessXXX]

Yilar,

My source was Time magazine, I think about 2-4 weeks ago, not sure.

On an unrelated note....

But now, saying that man does not improve the speed of which this warming is happening, come on... Everyone with more then 2 digits in they age can tell my they self-experience that the summer/winter temperature are different from when they were younger...

I dont think Rod really understands what global warming is. Ya see Rod, we as humans cant really "feel" the difference in temperature in relation to GW. We are only talkin a degree or 2 over decades.

If someone is saying "damn its so damn hot, its hotter than when I was a kid". Well then that person aint too bright, thats not the concept of GW. You are not going to notice how a 90 degree day differs from a 92 degree day, both are hot. Perhaps you might want to read about GW before trying to discuss it Rod.

In the words of my current favorite comedian Carlos Mencia... Der der der!

[rodrigom]

Goddess you can feel global warming. Perhaps if you weren't so little mind and started to wonder that the whole world climate isn't like american, where the variance is only 1-2 °C. The medium temperature of the world is going up. Medium temperature doesn't mean that the temperature is 1-2 °C higher every day. Means some days it will be 8°C higher, then others will be 4° colder.

So yes, people can feel that the country is going warmer. For exemple, brazilian northeast, where there's a place thats alike a desert, is experiencing one of the biggest draws in whole history. The pantanal, that 100 years ago was pure marsh, now is also becaming a desert due to lack of rains. While in Sao Paulo, untill February, you could see people using boats (literally), in some days, to walk in some streets, since the rain was way stronger then it should.

[XXXTheGoddessXXX]

Thats called weather Rod, it changes every day, many times it change during the same day, imagine that.

Its "becaming" hot here too, yes some days its hotter than others, but GW is about "averages", not regional floods or snow in late April early May, those things happen.

And its not about what you remember as a kid.