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Post by FriedrichPsitalon on Jan 30, 2004 10:59:51 GMT -5
Author's Note: The coming of C3C required a complete revision of this article, and much of it was changed. I apologize, but instead of getting smaller, it's actually grown. Don't try to take it all in one sitting - I surely didn't editing it. I really do believe that Future Start is the ultimate civ arena, and I hope after reading this article and trying some of what I describe, you will share my great appreciation of this game. Nothing would be more exciting than a 4v4 with planes, tanks, and battleships vying for power all over a globe! There's a team game I'd play in every time! Enjoy!
A Not-So-Brief Treatise on the Nature of the Game in Future Start Scenarios [/u]
With the arrival of Conquests, the unfortunate and crippled Future Start scenario bursts on the MP scene filled with possibilities: now airplanes work properly, enabling ferocious air wars that can swing the balance of power wildly – now TOW infantry can stand firm in the face of Modern Armor, giving defense without rubber a real chance. Marines, with their increased attack, make amphibious assault a major threat. Now helicopters can carry three units – even TOW – making “behind the lines” tactics quite a threat. With the fix of aerial units, aircraft carriers become powerful assets – and the war for sea power becomes important as well. A real Civ master can use the game’s final units as well as he/she can use the earlier ones – and in the Future era, a masterful strategist can demonstrate their skill in ways no earlier era could possibly showcase. Here is a realm that need not be settled by elimination or by victory points – struggles here are brutal, and when a decisive advantage is gained, the results are usually obvious and quick. Having said that, while Future Start is not at all an appropriate environment for 1 city elim, 2 or preferably 3 city works fine, and VP does an excellent job of displaying Future Start skills in all respects. Here, there are three wars, each no less important than the other two: air – both assault and defense, land – the battle for resources and towns, and sea – the battle to protect (or dominate) the coastlines against (or for) sea assaults. On all styles of maps, Pangea, Continent or Archipelago, the Future Start scenario offers a chance for truly epic struggles that swords and spears can only shake their heads in wonder to regard.
Civ Traits In Future Start, traits are key – so much so that you could argue that Future Start is almost “Trait but no UU” civ, since very few UUs have any effect on play.
Agricultural: Although there are reasons to play a non-agricultural civ in a Future Start game, you should recognize that doing so puts you at a significant disadvantage. In any government other than Despotism (which you should exit immediately on turn 1) Agricultural gives your city tile +1 food – meaning that a size 1 agricultural town will see size 2 noticeably before their non-agricultural rivals. This translates to much quicker growth, expansion, and eventually, industry. Agricultural also assists with the cost of several important QC structures: Aquaducts, recycling centers (good for your “super city” or two) and solar plants (same idea.)
Industrial: While the Industrial trait was weakened in C3C, it remains a very powerful asset in the future start arena – but nevertheless one that you can live without, if you have the right reasons. A Fascist/Non-Industrialist works as quickly as Democratic Industrialists, but on the other hand, a Fascist/Industrialist is the only possible way to have your workers move at “PTW speed.” Since Future Start is all about quick development of industry, this is not a trait to be put aside lightly, if at all.
Religious: If you choose religious, you do it for pretty much one reason: to get an early switch to your next form of government. Because of some tweaks to governments in MP, you should never need to switch again, unless you have significant changes to the size/distance of your empire. Temples are still not that bothersome to build since production shouldn’t be that hard to come by. While doing nothing but growing in your first 2-7 turns – rather than producing an explorer – is annoying, it isn’t that devastating in most cases.
Commercial: Unfortunately, this trait’s effectiveness is also lowered in Future Starts, but it may be worth leaning towards all the same. It is very easy to build a large, sprawling empire quickly, and Commercial lowers the global-corruption effect of Communism, or allows a Democracy/Fascism to spread even further with its relatively low corruption before you are forced to build the Forbidden Palace. With the changes to Communism and the Forbidden Palace, this trait may be truly “on the way out.” Its effectiveness in Future Start is negligible.
Scientific: Absolutely, totally useless. Cheap libraries and universities would be stupid to build since no research is needed (unless you were going for some really strange culture-flipping tactic….) No research will be done at this point. If you choose a scientific-trait Civ, you’re not doing it for this trait. Sorry, no SGLs for future techs – this trait is still junk unless you like libraries for land area.
Military: I normally don’t favor this trait too much, but in this environment, it may have a place. Promoted units are good, and if you get a Great Leader in this era, the possibilities are endless. Cheaper military structures are nice, too- not only Barracks but Civil Defense is cheaper for MIL civs- and Civil Defense is a spiffy improvement indeed. (Basically a second “wall” for any size city, that you can build after you finish your barracks.)
Expansionist: One of the biggest mental shifts that I had to force myself to undergo for Future Start was that the only thing more pointless than “Expansionist” is “Scientific.” NONE of the big bonuses of Expansionist are significant in Future Start. Early granaries? Everyone starts with pottery here. Early exploration? You can build an explorer- far superior to scouts- immediately, and usually in less than 5 turns. Favorable hut results? Here’s a tip: If you only pop huts with Explorers, you get the same results as an Expansionist Civ gets normally- no barbs and free settlers/towns possible. Choosing Expansionist basically means you want one slow-moving Explorer to start with, and nothing else. Strange, but true.
Seafaring: A powerful trait in Future Start for a variety of reasons: 1) Cheaper sea structures – harbors, offshore platforms, and commercial docks (amongst others) – all of which are useful production/commerce-benefit structures for Future Start. (Though commerce is less important for some governments than others.) 2) Faster moving boats – with the rising importance of the sea war, being able to catch enemy boats and keep your own out of harm’s way can be vital. 3) Less chance of sinking – err…okay, maybe you can’t have everything.
Probable “Best Civs” for Future Start Environment The above analysis throws the usual “best Civs” list completely on its ear. Here are the probable “Big players” in this environment, based on Civ Trait and UU.
Spain: Spain is potentially the biggest player, but also the biggest gamble. Not being able to build explorers (that’s what Conquistadores replace!) makes Spain potentially blind in the early game while everyone is trying to find resources. Not being able to do “Explorer Pillaging Cheese” can also be problematic- the other guy can harass your roads, but you can’t do the same. If you can find horses quickly and guard your horse road, Conquistadores are great for taking undefended cities, workers, and pillaging, but that’s a big “IF” about finding and securing those horses. CQ’s are still fragile enough that they’re barely better than Explorers should they come under attack. REL allows for a fast transition into a new government which might assist workers in linking up horses quicker. Using your SEA-trait-assisted galleons, you can conduct lightning-quick raids in which CQ’s appear from nowhere and strike without warning. Fascism is almost a necessity, though, to get your workers moving fast enough to snag needed horses. GA can be triggered by a single Wonder: the Colossus (200 shields is actually pretty cheap in Future Start, so building it will be quick) assuming you can’t find horses.
Carthage: The combination of IND and SEA make Carthage a solid player in Future Start – fast moving boats (even if just explorer-galleons) and fast workers give Carthage a good chance at locating and securing resources. Numidian Mercenaries upgrade to rifles for a relatively small cost, offering a faster way to defend your cities, if need be. Make sure to work that Industrial trait for all its worth, though, or risk falling behind the AGR civs in growth.
Maya: Probably the ultimate “power builder” civ for Future Start. Mayan cities grow fast from their agriculture, and they in turn churn lots of workers out to quickly improve their land, which they can quickly populate with settlers. Javelin Throwers can provide early anti-barbarian support, and possibly net you a few barbarian slaves. Bonus: The Pyramids trigger a Golden Age. While the Maya need a little time to get rolling, they are the pre-eminent threat in the late game, if played by solid hands.
Netherlands: The Netherlands is probably the most “situation-flexible” of all the Future Start civs. Give them desert and they can irrigate it to good measure; give them jungle and they can produce workers in droves to cut it down. Give them a small island, and they can quickly produce offshore platforms and harbors to make their galleons and turn their small island into a major naval center. Their UU is a non-factor, and there is no single wonder to trigger their Golden Age, but those are the only weaknesses in this very dependable – though not outstanding beyond being dependable – civilization.
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Post by FriedrichPsitalon on Jan 30, 2004 11:00:43 GMT -5
Egypt: One of the more balanced Civs out there, Egypt clocks in reasonably well in this environment. Egypt’s greatest strength is probably the speed of its start, ironically enough- an instant transfer to Democracy and Industrial workers means on turn 6 you can have two roads and two mines, which is all town one (Aka Granary-Settlerville) should probably ever need, although at least one or two explorers should be produced first before going into “settler mode.” If you manage to secure horses, you CAN still build the War Chariots, which aren’t too terrible for early harassment of workers/roads and killing Pillager-Explorers (ideal usage) since those tend to appear a lot early on, but if your opponent is a moderate distance away, you probably shouldn’t bother. You’re very unlikely to get a Golden Age with War Chariots, but the Pyramids alone can trigger a GA- and since the Pyramids don’t go obsolete like many wonders, it may be worth it to build them anyhow to take advantage of the quick growth, which Egypt may need, lacking the AGR trait.
China: Probably not thought of as a potentially good “Future Civ,” China has a lot to recommend it. As an Industrial Civ, China has the strong development and production potential inherent to that trait. A militaristic Civ can put that development to good use with quick barracks and readily promoted units. China’s rider, while no Future powerhouse, can utilize its speed to be a mini-Conquistadore, and might even be able to pick off an injured unit in a pinch. Additionally, China, like Spain, can trigger its GA very easily- the Great Wall, at a mere 200 shields, will make China gold. Unfortunately, like Spain’s Colossus, the Wall is obsolete from the moment you build it. China’s “Achilles Heel” is a potential food shortage – arid maps can really slow them down.
Ottomans: The Ottomans are distinct in that they are probably the only Civ that can marshall a semi-effective Future Attack with cavalry. Sipahi, while not great against TOWs, can at least have some hope against them- Rifles, the “I was in a hurry early” defender, are likely to lose to a Sipahi. Downside to the Ottomans is one totally useless Civ trait, and you DO still need two resources - Horses and Saltpeter - in order to make this attack work. Perhaps supported by a little artillery (or lots more Sipahi), though, the Ottoman Sipahi makes an effective attack unit. Industrial workers are a bonus as well, and the Sipahi at least has a change of offering a non-Wonder GA to Ottomans, useful since the Ottomans can only trigger a GA from the Internet without building multiple wonders.
Aztecs: With the change of the Aztec traits to MIL/AGR, the Jaguar Civilization suddenly looks good in future start. Exploring with Jags is silly, and unless you’re playing 1-city elim (which you should not be, future was never intended for 1 city elim), a Jagrush is pointless, so don’t bother – captured cities are easily retaken. You can, however, harass, pillage, enslave, and otherwise be a nuisance with Jags – and the combination of MIL and AGR means you can harness your quick growth into lots of troops later.
India: India is a “one trick pony” in Future Start – but if your opponent isn’t ready for the trick, they can be dangerous. If your opponent is playing India, it is important you find them as soon as possible – so you know which way to look for the one or two War Elephants that are coming. Once you have a single TOW infantry – or two rifles – the Elephants are no threat, but until you know where to watch for them and have the means to stop them, “Tiny” can be a big threat. After that, you have a civ with two very trivial traits and a relatively ineffective UU…. lunch.
Civilizations With No Future In Them The following is a list/discussion of the probable “worst picks” – but for some reason people still play them! This isn’t a comprehensive list of all the bad picks (Hittites, for example, are lousy too) and some not listed above or below are pretty good (Celts for example) but rather a list of those which have been showing up in Future start… and really shouldn’t be.
America- still inadvisable, even though the F-15 works in C3C. Industrial is weaker now, and EXP is still junk in Future start. America is better than it was – but still bad.
Vikings- the change from EXP to SEA just isn’t enough. Berserks may be able to compete (sometimes) with rifles, but never with TOWs. The time it takes to build a galleon and enough of these to mount an attack just isn’t worth it – especially when you find a guy with an anti-tank weapon waiting for you to sail up.
Germany- The Panzer isn’t that much better than the normal tank, and neither tank nor Panzer will beat TOW most of the time; you have to have modern armor or air support. Why bother using a civ with a wasted Civ trait just to get a faster moving tank? Modern Armor blows Panzers away (literally.) You can’t single-wonder-trigger a GA with Germany. No SGLs either – and nothing to make Bismarck worth playing.
Russia- I have NO idea what these people are thinking. Cossacks sucked in PTW, and while Blitz may be great against spears, good luck Blitzing rifles, infantry, or any modern-era defender. With the two most useless Civ traits for Future Start, just ask them to turn Civ traits off, why don’t you….
Governments Under Future Start- Democracy vs. Communism vs. Fascism With the changes in Conquests and patch 1.15, this is a whole new ballgame. In PTW, Democracy was THE future start government most of the time, but C3C throws that paradigm on its ear and then some. The short version: a credit to the developers, there is no longer a “best government” for MP-Future start. Each one has pros and cons which must be weighed: Communism’s production, Democracy’s commerce, or Fascism’s support and industriousness? From the top:
Communism: Communism is still the government of big, sprawling empires – but where it barely held this role in PTW, it excels in C3C. With the arrival of the Secret Police HQ, and the changes to the Forbidden Palace (and corruption in general) a Communist civilization can easily out produce the other two empires, once a certain size in land area is passed. Want captured cities on the other continent to produce as soon as you take them? Communism is for you – you’ll likely see less than 30% corruption, all the way out on another continent, if you have all the corruption-reducing structures complete. The greatest strength of Communism is its ability to perform when distance becomes a major factor – making it a very powerful government for continent and archipelago maps, or in massive nations wishing to bring the full brunt of their industry to bear. Most notable drawback: population is the “fuel” for rushing improvements/units. This makes the people quite cranky and lowers your city sizes; rushing is not what Communism does well. Communism: Where ponderous behemoths go to become unstoppable juggernauts. Communism vs Democracy: Comparatively, Communist workers are somewhat slower. You will see more corruption in your “palace core” since Communism has communal rather than central corruption, but will be able to get great use of cities much further away than a Democracy could. Your commerce and research (not that research matters) will be significantly lower unless your empire is truly massive and has lots of cities further away than a Democracy would be able to use. You need not worry about war weariness, and your unit support is roughly equal – Democracy can throw its commerce at support to make up for its lack of free units. You can draft more often than a Democracy. Democracies are THE “rush this item” government, leaving you far behind in this category. Against a Democracy, a Communist nation must try to grow as quickly as possible, become massive, and then leverage their gargantuan production potential to overrun the money-rushed Democratic units. Communism vs Fascism : Communist workers are half as fast as Fascist ones – not a minor detail. More corruption occurs in your core than in Fascism for the same reasons as above, but Fascism’s corruption is greater than Democracy, meaning that as you expand away from the capital, your communal corruption will show up better and better against Fascism’s centralized system. Your commerce and research are roughly equivalent to Fascism’s at small and mid-size, but the larger your empire gets, the better your commerce and research looks. Fascism is your equal in war weariness – neither of you care how many people go off to die. Unfortunately, Fascism can outdo you in unit support, particularly at the top end (lots of metropolis-sized cities) and this can be an issue, but you can churn out units a lot faster if you both have large empires – assuming your workers can keep tile improvements roughly equal, which will be no small task. Luckily, switching to this government doesn’t maul your cities of 2 citizens – a noteworthy drawback to the Fascist government. Fascism can rush units with currency, making them better rushers than you – but they don’t have the money supply Democracy does, so they aren’t a lot better, only some. Against a Fascist state, a Communist nation must try to keep up in the early stages and grow vigorously, and then overrun later on when the Communist state’s production far outstrips the Fascist, and the Fascist nation cannot rush units fast enough to keep up.
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Post by FriedrichPsitalon on Jan 30, 2004 11:02:24 GMT -5
Democracy Democracy’s fall from grace has nothing to do with a weakening of this government (although the re-introduction of War Weariness into MP is very significant); rather, it has more to do with the improvements to Communism and the introduction of Fascism as Democracy’s “central corruption” rival. Democracy is still the government of “the power of money” and can produce quite well besides. With a commerce bonus that no other “advanced” government has, a well-developed empire can bring in enough cash to rush units and improvements at a pace that can lead to a significant early advantage in units. More importantly, democracy can easily stockpile enough gold to instantly respond to unpleasant situations as they arrive. Democratic workers in future start are capable of laying down roads instantly, further improving the commerce-gathering potential of their government. With the lowest central-corruption model available, you can also expand quite some distance before corruption makes cities largely unusable. Democracy: feel the power of the money! Democracy vs Communism : A Democratic nation in future start usually does better than a Communist one in the early stages – Democratic workers improve the land more quickly, and money-rushed granaries and other structures mean faster expansion. Despite having no free units and no ability to use military police, Democracies can leverage their commerce bonus enough to handle both issues quite well. War weariness is a problem, but in MP you rarely see it unless you wander around in opposing territory with lots of units for an extended period of time. Whereas Communism specializes in utilizing distant cities, Democracy suffers at it: they have to dump their money into improvements, which may never give them much return. Drafting is a very weak option for Democracies – one unit is rarely enough to swing the balance. Against a Communist state, a Democracy must harness its money-making potential very aggressively, and use its commerce and low corruption to produce a large army while still growing, before Communism gets a chance to really bring its communal corruption into play – the late game between Communism and Democracy is a very difficult one, since Democracy can make a lot of money, but cannot produce as quickly, eventually running out of “rushing cash,” and by this time, the number of dead units and units in opposing territories can drive War Weariness to levels where it can really become a problem. Democracy vs Fascism A Democratic nation is roughly even in start speed to a Fascist state – while the Democracy has slower workers, they can make up for this by speeding production with rush-buys that a Fascist state cannot match. Just as against a Communist nation, the Democracy must work hard to harness its money-making potential. A Fascist state relies on its workers and support levels to allow it to rush when needed and produce aggressively, so be prepared for earlier assaults from these states. Fascist nations will also potentially try to draw you into extended conflicts, since they have no war weariness – avoid these by making quick, brutal strikes and keeping them out of your land whenever possible. War weariness takes awhile to really set in, but when it does, it is nearly impossible to get rid of in MP – your opponent isn’t going to declare peace!
Fascism The first and most important thing to remember about this government is that switching to it will cost you 2 population in EVERY city. It won’t disband size 1 or 2 cities, but it will reduce a size 2 city back to 1 – so if you’re planning on switching to this government, do it sooner rather than later. That’s actually fine, though – Fascism performs best in the early going of Future start, where its workers can move quickly and its unit support/military police garrisons can allow you to build a surplus of cash. Fascism is the government of the vicious early rush – you use your workers to improve a few towns a great deal, and have them create quantities of units to send out to find your foes. Three TOWs showing up at the wrong time early can really wreck another player’s day. A fascist government would probably work best with a Communist teammate- the Communist, having no use for his gold, pipes it over to the Fascist, who can then enjoy the rushing benefits of a Democracy without the problems of keeping the people in check. Fascism vs Communism The key here is to hit early – your corruption is less (in the early stages of growth ) than a Communism and your workers are twice as fast. You must use this, because your commerce isn’t good enough to compete later on with the production potential of a Communist state. Go for the throat – you have to cripple a Communist state early, or be prepared to use every bit of your unit support later on to keep up with the production monster that Communism can become. Fascism vs Democracy Here, you have to try and leverage your garrison-and-support against Democracy’s commerce bonus – a tough job. Having a cheap, obsolete UU to garrison with helps to maximize your advantage in keeping the people happy without wasting much time on it. Remember that Democracies suffer from War Weariness, so the more time that your troops sit in their territory and his troops sit in yours (meaning that they didn’t take a city) the more attention the Democracy will have to pay to the luxury slider, cutting down that commerce advantage. Grisly, messy wars involving lots of units are the way to grind Democracies down. It may take awhile to set in, but over time, War Weariness DOES add up, though you may never see the effects from your side.
Early Strategies - What To Do When You’re Getting Started
Unfortunately, one of the downsides of “Future Start” games is that there aren’t a lot of different strategies – at first. (This changes dramatically later on.) You can’t “early rush” someone unless you are very close to them - by the time you get there, an infrastructure to crush your two or three units will be built, particularly if your opponent is rush-buying with a Democracy. That’s a truism for all Civ games, but even more so in Future Start, where infrastructure can be created very quickly. The winning strategy in Future Start is build, build, build, and then leverage your infrastructure to crush your foe. You can see this also by looking at the “basic” Future Start units. A rifle can’t expect to beat another rifle, and the same can be said for a TOW. A guerilla will probably lose to a rifle behind a wall or on a hill and certainly to a TOW in any situation. In order to be successful in attacking, then, you either need lots of artillery and units, or better units. Thus you have the two strategies of early-to-mid future start: super-build or resource grab.
Good Advice For Builders or Grabbers Alike
Unless you’re rolling the dice and going with Spain, your first build (or two if you’re resource-grabbing) are explorers. Explorers are nifty units in Future Start. They can zoom around the map at six squares a turn locating everything you need, pop huts and be sure of positive results when they do so, and should they come upon your foe, pillage roads and mines. About the only thing they can’t do for you is take the unoccupied towns you’re likely to find early on, or kill the workers (or other explorers) you meet. (Which, by the way, is why Conquistadores are so strong- they can do that too…if you find horses and someone else’s explorer doesn’t sever your road.)
Once you have one or two explorers built you want a granary. The only exception to this would be if your opponent(s) are close enough that a “Rifleman Rush” is a real threat if you don’t build some defense immediately. Yes, that’s a granary before you even build your first settler. A granaried town will catch up very quickly, even on unimproved terrain- by the time a non-granaried opponent is done with their third settler, you will be even with them, and you’ll have your fifth settler out by the time they have their fourth. That’s under least-ideal circumstances; irrigate some floodplain and mine some hills near your capital city and you’ll find even better results. A city that starts with two game, or two mined cows, or two mined wheat that gets a granary will average a settler every 2 to 3 turns - and you will leave your foes far behind in expansion speed, particularly if you have a second town building workers to improve your cities and lay down roads for your settlers to rush out on. In Future Start (though this is good advice for any style of game) never, EVER turn off that granaried city from Settlers (not workers!) unless you have absolutely no other hope of survival. It’s easy as things start to heat up to forget to keep expanding- ALWAYS keep expanding. I generally have a granaried settler pump that I never turn off, and a granaried worker-pump that I don’t turn off until I have so many workers I’m forced to automate at least half. Especially in Future Start, improved tiles make a big difference, and every city can contribute efficiently- always keep developing your land, and always keep expanding! When you run out of room, examine your territory for “holes” – areas which are in your territory but no city is using, or due to size, cities nearby CAN use, but aren’t. Fill in those spaces! Generally, (and this is always assuming you are left ‘mostly alone’ in the start- modify as needed if that’s not the case) your second or third city should be a production giant, left to grow as large as it can and with all its terrain mined- you use this town for your military center, and have barracks and units built there to defend your rapidly expanding empire. Whether you build the worker factory before or after the military center is up to your preferences and judgment of the map.
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Post by FriedrichPsitalon on Jan 30, 2004 11:06:23 GMT -5
Since you won’t be expanding a second city out instantly, your worker should improve your best two tiles in your Capital BEFORE building a road out to your next city site. Only two - a granaried “Settlerville” generally doesn’t stay at size 3 very long before dropping back. If you have the extra time to burn, improve a 3rd square, but most times two is enough. If you’re lucky enough to have game in your starting area, don’t bother with chopping down the forest- just start roading to your next city site, improve one tile if you only have one game, and start improving tiles at city site 2.
Workers are a BIG part of Future Start games, particularly in the early stages. This isn’t a despotism where you lose the 3rd food or production from a square- irrigated grassland and mined hills are all good things to have. A size 6 city with six tiles improved is often three times more effective than a size 6 city with no tiles improved. Use intelligence in guiding your workers- unless you have problems with the turn timer biting you, don’t automate your workers. Automated workers LOVE irrigating- too much! Don’t waste time irrigating unless you really need to- mines are key to production, and unless you have food problems (say, all plains and desert or something) you’ll get up to “I need an aquaduct” size just fine without irrigation. If you have a river or plan on building an aquaduct, you still don’t need to snag more food than you need for a size 12 city- “Metropolitan” cities (size 13+) often run into pollution, and are often more trouble than they’re worth; keep your cities close and planned with size 12 in mind. Whenever possible, you want to mine the terrain, to increase production, which in turn will mean more units and improvements. The more workers you have, the faster you can build those mines, and so on. More workers also means you can get your hands on resources that much quicker, which is where the two strategies (alike in early development, hopefully) differ greatly. First, we will discuss the somewhat unorthodox strategy of deliberately ignoring resources – or at least not trying to capture them for yourself – and then we’ll talk about the resource grabber.
The Super-Builder A new and unorthodox but surprisingly effective strategy, the Super-Builder does very little exploring – probably using only one explorer to locate his opponent and then survey the land on automated exploration. The foundation and belief of this plan is that by using the “core units” (TOW, SAM, and Artillery) you can effectively repel any sort of attack using large enough numbers, and that by concentrating solely on getting large enough numbers, the road to victory will be yours. TOW/SAM/Art stacks garrison every city, and when the time to go on the offensive comes, TSA stacks fill this role as well. To the credit of this strategy, it does work acceptably- SAMs, hidden behind the defense of TOW, have a solid chance of surviving consistently and shooting down enemy bombers. Artillery can soften tanks and armor attacking the TSA stack quite a bit, and can hammer enemy defenses enough to allow TOWs to actually capture cities. This strategy seeks to concentrate all its efforts on building lots and lots of these units, and also wonders - it is particularly strong for Communist nations. In a VP game, it is very formidable – attacking a TSA stack is often fatal for the attacker, and meanwhile, wonders are being built back home, raking in the points. In response to the threat of more advanced units, a TSA player will usually head to important resources not to capture them, but to simply hold them so that the opponent cannot use them. It is a waste of time and resources, according to a Super-Builder, to try and stretch out far enough to grab a resource; far better to simply deny them to both sides and count on your superior, concentrated industry which has not wasted time searching for useful, but not vital items. If a Super-Builder can easily annex a resource without putting a town in an exposed position or sending a road halfway across the world, great – but if not, the TSA will work just fine, thanks. Really, the only important resources in a Super-Builder’s mind are coal and iron: for their industrial potential!
The Resource Grabber The Resource Grabber is an entirely different idea – this person may build as many as three or even four explorers right off in order to find huts for maps and settlers, and more importantly – to locate those vital resources! Resource grabbers frequently send workers (escorted or not) far beyond the borders of their empire to secure resources and luxuries by road and colony, and are also often seen sending TOWs and settlers in Galleons halfway across the world if needed, in order to secure something they need. Harbors and airports are common sights for a Resource Grabber. Spending so much time on all these pursuits often slows the raw industrial growth of the Resource Grabber, but this player feels that superior units can overcome their lesser numbers – bombers can pick off units, cut roads, etc, while Warships pound coastal cities and so on. The “Resource Grabber” was the only real method of victory in PTW, but in C3C, Super-Builders can actually do quite well for themselves. Regardless of whether you intend to use resources or simply deny them to your opponent, you need to know what is important, and what is not.
Resource Acquisition: What you need, what you don’t
Some resources (duh) are more important than others. Some can give you useful structures/units on their own, but others require combinations with other resources. Here’s a breakdown of what is useful by itself, what is useful in a combination, and where you can probably look for them.
Iron : Iron on its own means Factories, which can be quite handy if you have towns that can utilize them (and can deal with the pollution) but aren't terribly handy in the very early going. With coal, though, you’ve got the combination for railroads, which are EXTREMELY useful. Iron can be found on hills and mountains only. Iron+Saltpeter means you can make Ironclads (yawn) and Coastal Fortresses- which aren’t spiffy, but might be nice if battleships are harassing your coast.
Horses: Horses alone are only really handy if you want worker-harassers or explorer killers…. or you’re Spain. Horses+iron=knights, which are pretty pointless, with the possible exception of Chinese Riders… Horses+Saltpeter is cavalry, Sipahi, or Cossacks… cavalry can be used as a desperation attack unit, but only if speed is important – TOWs pack a lot more punch if speed won’t make a difference. Horses, with the exception of Spain and Ottomans, can usually be ignored. Horses can be found on hills, plains, and grassland.
Saltpeter: Saltpeter is unquestionably the least useful resource on its own. Only the Ottomans or someone enduring a nightmare of naval attacks should ever bother with Saltpeter. If you’re completely without other attack options than cavalry, think about a strong defensive network and points-to-win instead. Saltpeter can be found on desert, hills, and mountains.
Coal: In Future Start, coal means one thing and one thing only: Railroads. If you have iron, do ANYTHING to get your hands on coal. If you don’t have iron, it’s completely useless to you. Coal can be found on hills and mountains.
Rubber: One of the more important resources of the Future Era. Alone, it allows infantry (not useful compared to TOW), paratroopers (varying use), and marines (much improved with C3C.) With oil, it allows helicopters (handy for dropping TOW groups behind enemy lines), and tanks – throw in aluminum and you’ve got jets and modern armor. Rubber can be found in forests, jungles, and marshes.
Oil: Oil is possibly the single most important resource in C3C. Your navy and air force (although, again, air units cause frequent OOS) both depend on oil to get things going. While you can survive an air assault if you lack oil with aggressive TOW/SAM construction, it certainly is a lot easier to build fighters. Having the ability to make your own aerial assaults is a tremendous asset – cutting roads in random places, tearing up land, picking off exposed units… as long as you can avoid enemy SAM units, you can wreak havoc. Don’t underestimate the usefulness of a navy, even if you’re all on the same continent- some ships have a significant artillery value, and submarines can tell you what’s in an opposing coastal city… and your opponent won’t even know you’re watching. Oil is half of the tank combo, and part of the Modern Armor combo as well. (It also makes a pretty spiffy production bonus, especially mined.) Oil can be found in desert and tundra.
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Post by FriedrichPsitalon on Jan 30, 2004 11:08:27 GMT -5
Aluminum : Aluminum actually gives you a few decent units on its own, in addition to being important for the most dangerous combat units. Most people think of aluminum as merely a component for modern armor, but aluminum alone will also give you access to cruise missiles (one-shot artillery capable of killing units) and radar artillery- the most lethal form of artillery in the game, possessing a high attack value AND the ability to fire and then move. It’s always a rude surprise for someone to send a tank after a town that appears to be defended poorly- only to discover two radar artillery waiting to pound that tank down to one health before the attack begins! Cruise missiles and radar artillery (use the artillery first, obviously, since it can’t kill) together can actually kill approaching units before they even get a chance to attack your city, though it might be awkward and impractical to try an offensive with them. If you actually are in a situation where it might help and have the production to do so…. Aluminum IS half of the components needed for the dreaded nuclear weapons…. Though most times they’re too expensive to build in a 2 hour game, or you have enough other resources to make it not worth bothering with. Nuclear weapons are, obviously, extremely effective in both offensive and defensive roles. Aluminum can appear in several places: tundra, grassland, and hills.
Uranium: Uranium gives the largest “worked square” bonus, enough to make it worth building a city near the resource even if you already have one source, or don’t need uranium. The other half of the “Nuke combo,” uranium also allows nuclear submarines to be produced- which are actually inferior subs, but can carry a tactical nuke if such a thing suited your fancy. The problem with nukes in general is that you have to build The Manhattan Project just to use them- which sends up a screaming red flag to your enemy who will know when it is done…. and also be able to build nukes themselves from that point forward!
There are SO MANY things to BUILD!!
One of the most common complaints/confusions about Future Era starts is what you should build- there are so many options, after all. The most basic question you should ask yourself is: What am I doing with this town? Is this a town for producing settlers or workers? Irrigate it and build a granary. Is this a naval exploration/warfare site? Get a harbor and maybe - only maybe - an offshore platform in there and start building ships. Is this town holding a strategic ‘front line’ position? Get walls, barracks, and then civil defense in there! Was this just a good city site in general? If so, decide if you’re going to try and turn it into a major production center (factory, power plant, Wonder/Nuke Production), an artillery/support center (planes, artillery pieces - you don’t need any improvements here besides a temple, not even barracks!) or a military production center (barracks only, then you’re off and running.) It may help you for memory’s sake to rename cities based on their purpose. “Settlerville,” “ArtilleryVille,” “Deep Sea One” and so on. Have a basic plan for each city when you plant it, so you won’t have to waste time thinking about it later.
Here is a rundown of structures, starting with the “what not to build” list, then the “what to build sometimes” list, and finally the “what to build almost all the time” list.
What Not To Build Marketplaces/Banks/Stock Exchanges- Money shouldn’t be a problem for you since you don’t need any research. Ditto keeping your people happy for the same reason.
Library/University/Research Center- Research not needed. Culture flips unreliable for MP.
Colosseum/Cathedral/Police Station- Expensive and pointless- people happiness should be a non-issue, unless you’ve been dragged into a Democracy’s worst nightmare: a grinding war of attrition. (Consider changing governments!)
Hospital- Growth above size 12 often makes pollution a real threat. Just cram your cities a little closer together if you’re worried about tiles you won’t use.
Mass Transit/Recycling Center- in most Future Start games, you’re not going to see serious pollution problems, certainly nothing a worker or two can’t fix. These are expensive and take awhile to build- not worth it, except possibly in a Supercity, and even then, it’d have to be one heck of an industrial giant.
The Power Plants- If you want these, just build the Hoover Dam. Solar is VERY expensive, Hydro needs a river, Nuclear can melt down from unrest, and Coal is a horrendous polluter. If you’re absolutely dying for a massive production city (say, for wonders or nukes) then go for anything but Coal, with preference for Nuclear.
Offshore Platforms- Unless the city in question is on an island, or you have nothing but floodplain, it is more efficient timewise to build a factory or Power Plant or mine the tiles around that city.
Coastal Fortress/SAM Missile Battery- These tend to be the first structures to die under bombardment- they don’t protect you very well. They’re cheap, but it’s probably better to attack the unit doing the bombarding.
Things to Build Sometimes Or perhaps that should read “occasionally.”
Airports: Airports allow you to move one unit from a city with an airport to another city with an airport every turn. You could airlift units to a town on an island- or if you have five or six airports, move multiple units into a town under attack. Airports can only SEND one unit a turn- they can RECEIVE unlimited numbers of them. If two nations both have airports, and roads connecting those airport-cities to their capital, they can trade resources/luxuries. You also need an airport (or an airfield, made by a worker) in order to use a paratrooper’s special function, or to make veteran planes – which comes into play with Anti-Air and Air vs Air combat.
City Walls: If you expect a city to come under attack, build some walls. If you don’t expect that city to get hit, don’t bother. (Duh?) If you’re wrong, they’re a quick build/rush later when the need presents itself.
Civil Defense: Think of these as “Walls v2.0.” They do precisely the same thing as walls, but work for any size city. Think about what that means for defense in the case of a metropolis, with a TOW guarding it – even modern armor cringes. Please note, though: YOU MUST HAVE BARRACKS BUILT in a city to build Civil Defense! (Another point in favor of militaristic civs.)
Factory: If you have a city that is already a production giant- heavily mined, maybe some resources, size 12 (or on the way to it), etc, then you have a candidate for a factory. The next question to ask, though, is why do you want to build it? If you are building VERY expensive things (Modern Armor actually probably doesn’t count, particularly if you’re Democratic and can money-rush) like nuclear weapons or wonders, then you have a reason to build that factory. Otherwise, the 240 shield price tag on a factory probably isn’t worth it for a 50 percent increase in production. Look at your city’s production and time to factory completion, then ask yourself: “How many turns does this factory need to be working, before it even pays for its own cost?” If that number is high, then reconsider whether or not you want one.
Granary: Build these in your Settlerville, and your Workerville. You can also skip the Workerville granary by using two towns to pump workers, if you like. Don’t neglect them in your settlervilles, though, or you’ll regret your slower rate of expansion later. Granaries aren’t worth building in towns that will never shrink in size, though.
Harbor: In Future Start, harbors guarantee trade with anyone else who has a harbor- provided you both have roads back to your capital. If you have a need for naval warfare, spend the 80 shields before you start making warships/transports to get veterans; boats aren’t cheap. In most cases, though not all, you should be able to get enough food without using a harbor for that purpose, so skip it if you don’t have a real need.
Manufacturing Plant: If for some reason things are getting REALLY ugly, and you need HUGE production in one city, even more than a factory can provide, you might build one of these. The only reason I could see for this highly expensive production-booster is an extremely ugly ICBM tossing contest, or a city that wants to build lots and lots of wonders. Where manufacturing plants go, pollution follows – be ready for it.
Things to Build Often
Aquaducts: If you don’t have a river at a city site, make plans for an aquaduct early on. Since you don’t have to worry about large populations getting obnoxious and rioting, big cities are nothing to fear (well, until you hit 13+.) You’re probably spreading your cities out a bit in order to claim land for land area anyhow- at least at size 12, you can use most of the tiles you’re claiming. The only cities that would want to skip an Aquaduct would be extremely poor food sites (a city surrounded by nothing but hills and mountains, which are the only squares you can’t eventually irrigate) or your Settlerville/Workerville cities. Jungle cities can hold off on them until you’ve cleared most of the jungle, obviously.
Barracks: The only cities that will want to skip a barracks are your Settlerville, Workerville, and Artilleryville. Massive production centers intended for building wonders will probably end up building units someday. Unless you’re on an island map or have a very good reason to dedicate a lot of time/effort into sea power, your coastal cities will probably be building land units at some point to support your final push towards victory, too. Cities that expect to come under attack have two reasons to build these- healing units, and to gain access to Civil Defense!
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Post by FriedrichPsitalon on Jan 30, 2004 11:11:44 GMT -5
Temple: It’s not just for claiming land area anymore. A no-culture city only has 8 workable tiles, and it is likely that a few of those tiles aren’t ideal. A temple will push your workable tiles out to the maximum 18, which will allow you to work potentially better tiles, and put all 12 of your eventual citizens to work.
Our Story So Far- A Brief Recap
So now we know how to get our feet under us. We have an aggressive early expansion plan that fits our overall “game plan.” Our first 3-5 cities include Settlerville, Workerville, and two cities dedicated to defensive units for our new towns. City 6 or 7 might be exploration based, artillery based, or production for wonder-based, depending on our needs. We know what to build in each town based on the purpose we have for that town. We know which resources are important, and which are important with which combinations. Now let’s take a look at what to do in a few situations that people might have trouble with.
“Manhattan Project” is slang for “Kaboom! That was a nice city.”
In Future Start games, the f7 key is your friend. You need to know what wonders are being produced at all times- and if you see the Manhattan project being produced - or are producing it - then you need to work very hard to get a few questions answered VERY quickly: Who has the resources to build nukes, who has the manufacturing capability to actually have a threatening number of them, and what does the Project mean to you?
Ideally, you are the one building the Project. This means you already have the materials needed for Nuclear weapons, but just because you have the materials doesn’t mean you should build it. Look around and see if your opponents have aluminum and uranium- and if you don’t know the answer to that, be very careful. Find out with explorers, the Apollo Program, embassies, intelligence, anything. Trading nuclear exchanges will only hammer you both into oblivion and give the other players in the game a chance to take you both out. It might be better to reconsider building the Project. If you absolutely must commit to a nuclear exchange scenario, get the SDI small wonder built FIRST. 5 SAM batteries will allow you to build it for 500 shields. While not flawless, 75 percent of incoming ICBMs will be knocked down. As for tactical nukes, your only hope is not to let them get close enough to fire- try to screen for submarines, and keep fast units available to take nuclear weapons out on the ground if you see someone moving one in by road. It is very dangerous to build the Project if you cannot assure yourself of a nuclear monopoly. If you DO have that nuclear monopoly, and you intend to be the Fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse, then it is wise to get factories in two or three towns, and then have those cities build “junk wonders.” As soon as the Manhattan Project is done, switch them from the “Junk wonders” to Tactical or ICBM weapons, depending on your needs. (ICBMs can hit anywhere, but are twice as expensive as Tactical nukes, which can only fire up to 12 squares from wherever you move it that turn. Note that Tac-Nukes can be moved on railroad and roads……) Note that if you see someone else building the Project and you have aluminum/uranium, you can do the same “prebuild” trick - just watch for the “Project complete” message and have your towns finish the nukes next turn. The wise player will toss their first nukes at the production giants of the other “Nuclear Power,” in hopes of slowing down any nuclear weapons they may be producing. Most players will seriously consider conceding if you have a Nuclear Monopoly and are able to use it.
What exactly does a nuclear weapon do? The effects are pretty devastating - all of the following effects occur in the square you target, and 1 tile in every direction from the point of impact. The population of any city in the explosion radius is cut in half, rounding up. You may also lose improvements in the city. There is a random (good) chance that any units in the affected area are dead – or at the very least injured; it is possible but quite rare for a unit to survive uninjured. This goes for workers, settlers, and artillery as well – but NOT for other nukes! All forest/jungle tiles in the explosion radius are cleared of forest/jungle immediately. (Deforestation, industrial style. YAR!) All improvements on any tile in the explosion radius are destroyed. All squares (besides city squares) in the explosion radius are polluted.
So, in short, a nuclear weapon can pretty much take a massive, highly productive city and reduce it to a useless burg – a size 30 city may still look large at 15, but when it starves for the next 10 turns, losing a population point every turn, it will shrink quickly; remember, total pollution means no food!
Yeah, great. I DO NOT have uranium- just aluminum, the other guy has both, and he just started the Project. Now what?
If you catch the Project within 2-3 turns of it getting started, you’ve actually got a pretty good shot at preparing yourself for it. The Manhattan Project takes 800 shields to complete, and even a tactical nuke requires 300 more. If you’re lucky, you’ll have 1100 shields worth of time to prepare yourself, 800 if you have a smart pre-builder against you. A Sam Missile Battery is only 80 shields- you need 5 of these, but they’re pretty cheap- and then SDI defense is merely 500 shields. This protects you from the ICBMs… mostly. At 600 shields a pop, your opponent will probably be loathe to fire something with only a 25 percent chance of success. Tactical nukes are still a threat, and unfortunately a bit harder to counter. If one gets within 12 squares of its target - usually a city - it can strike. On land, this means a wide sentinel net of fast units- cavalry, modern armor, whatever, with outposts built on hills and mountains. Nuclear weapons ARE artillery pieces, and can be captured/destroyed (ouch.) The bigger threat is a nuclear submarine with a tac-nuke onboard. Your best bet here is to build submarines and destroyers of your own to counter them, since they can see submarines, unlike other units. Aegis cruisers do that very well, too, but those require aluminum and uranium to build. (That’s an option for someone looking for more defense in a nuclear exchange scenario.)
I just told you, I don’t HAVE any bloody uranium, and I don’t have any bloody aluminum either, so I CANT build SAM sites and SDI defense!
Option #2: Build an Intelligence Agency for 500 shields and sabotage production in the city building the Project. This is EXPENSIVE to do, however – start preparing for it early. (Especially since you’ll probably need to do it more than once.) You can use your Intelligence Agency to monitor the progress of the Project and zap it right before completion to stretch out the time wasted by your opponent, though the expense will be horrendously high at that point. This is probably the better option for someone with no chance of getting a nuclear arsenal of their own.
(You can also just TAKE the town building the project, but if you can do that, you probably are doing just fine anyhow.)
Non-Nuclear Problems - When Their Armor is Modern, and Yours Isn’t.
If you’re lucky enough to not have to worry about a nuclear-equipped foe, but unlucky enough to be on the short end of the resource stick, you have to play a very different sort of game. Obviously, if you’ve got modern armor and the other fellow doesn’t, you build lots of armor and go off a-hunting. In order to win when you’re gasping for resources, you’ve got to build and defend as quickly as you can.
Use Mobility To Your Advantage If you have railroads, that’s a big step to your own defense- obviously, every city should be connected via a rail line. If possible, every city should have TWO rail lines connecting them, so that you can get units into a city even if the railroad is cut in one direction. If you don’t have railroad, be liberal with your road building- give yourself lots of routes in and out. In fact, it might be worth it to road every single square between cities. Secondly- and this one may sound a little weird- plant forest in every available square between you and your foe’s route of approach. For Fascist/Industrious, this isn’t that long a task- and it can pay off. Forest requires 2 movement to pass through, and tanks or modern armor will be slowed in their approach if they have to go through it. This gives your artillery that much more time to fire on them as they approach.
Choose Your Battleground You may wish to place a city or two towards the front of your empire with an eye to defense. Put cities on hills and behind rivers, obviously - 50 percent of a 10 defense bonus is a lot more than back in the spear-and-pike era. By the same token, make sure to get walls up, and build barracks so that you can build civil defense. TOWs with a full defensive array – walls, hills, radar outpost, etc – have better than even odds against Modern Armor. If possible, do not put your city beside a mountain; this is an excellent place for hostile units to try and duck artillery barrages. Ideally, you want a city that borders on jungle- these squares take 3 movement to move through. If you have oil, you can really punish incoming units travelling through jungle.
Keep a Reserve Force Try to keep a mobile reserve near your front line, between cities that are likely to be hit. They can reinforce as needed for your defense.
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Post by FriedrichPsitalon on Jan 30, 2004 11:14:41 GMT -5
Watch For Them Coming In Try and keep a few sentinels out on mountains/hills,etc. These should probably not be outposts, since you will want to move them back as the tanks come rolling in, and tanks will just destroy those. If you can tell where your opponent is coming from, you can plan your response better. Consider a few fighters for reconnaissance if you can build them, and bombers to chew up tanks; if your opponent has SAMs along, take the chance anyhow – your planes won’t do you any good if the city is captured.
Artillery Is Good Even without a single resource, you can still build the second-best artillery piece in the game. Don’t be afraid to build LOTS of these - 6 or 7 per city that you per city that you expect to come under attack. Even Modern Armor can lose if it is forced to attack with only one health. If you have Radar Artillery, so much the better.
KEEP EXPANDING Most of all, if you know you cannot win militarily, you must keep expanding. Someone bent on crushing you militarily will probably NOT be expanding - or if they are, obviously not as fast as they could be. More cities gives you more locations to build TOWs, SAMs and artillery to bolster your defense. It also gives you more score- never, EVER turn off that settler pump. Consider making a second one. If you have filled all available land, load up a galleon or transport and go looking for an island (though hopefully you’ve already explored the seas and know where the islands can be found.) That’s a doubly good idea if you’re getting starved for resources - many times, if there seems to be a scarcity of something on the mainland, there are other sources to be found on islands.
Finally, the end! Is THAT all?
Nope. For now at least, I've left some of the most clever tricks for the reader to discover. How best to use airplanes, the proper way to launch an amphibious assault, how to survive a nuclear assault and be back on your feet before your opponent even has another nuke built; all these strategies exist and more for you, the reader and civver to discover on your own. Think you can come up with a strategy for success?
Prove it! The future awaits those who but have the strength to shape it.
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DisRuptive1
Worker
DisRuptive1 will bitch slap ya'll.
Posts: 23
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Post by DisRuptive1 on Jan 30, 2004 22:27:27 GMT -5
Where can this scenario be found?
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DisRuptive1
Worker
DisRuptive1 will bitch slap ya'll.
Posts: 23
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Post by DisRuptive1 on Jan 30, 2004 22:28:18 GMT -5
I mean does it come with civ3 conquest?
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DisRuptive1
Worker
DisRuptive1 will bitch slap ya'll.
Posts: 23
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Post by DisRuptive1 on Jan 31, 2004 2:53:21 GMT -5
And are you serious that there is war warriness in MP now?
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Post by FriedrichPsitalon on Jan 31, 2004 7:36:40 GMT -5
The scenario came with PTW and was very popular here - it was not shipped with C3C, but I recreated it.
Since then, I've edited the file back to PTW resource levels to improve the balance of play. As soon as I can figure out how to get my FTP to let folks download it, I'll be putting it up there again, though most ladder players have it now, I understand.
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DisRuptive1
Worker
DisRuptive1 will bitch slap ya'll.
Posts: 23
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Post by DisRuptive1 on Feb 3, 2004 23:32:57 GMT -5
What about wonders? And I see how much of a time waster it is to build libraries, universities, and research labs in every city but what about the Seti Program? Which wonders should be built and which should be skipped?
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Post by Armageddon1 on Feb 24, 2004 20:11:57 GMT -5
excellent post fried, i learned a lot and i will try that strategy in my future future start games.
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Post by dalecooper on Mar 5, 2004 7:51:17 GMT -5
i found out that building 6-7 explorers at start isnt a good idea. Dont do that!
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Post by TicToc on Mar 10, 2004 17:51:50 GMT -5
2 questions
You make a strong point on ignoring science. However you do not show any numbers considering _non_-VP games, where researching future tech gives you score (or so I've understood). Could you, please, elaborate more on science in future start games ?
Have you thought of making another future start scenario, one without the Manhattan project ? It would change the game dramatically and to my experience to better.
Also there is a slight mistake considering the colossus: Colossus becomes obsolete after the discovery of Flight, so it can not be built in future or modern age starts. the "traits" of colossus are: Exp, Seaf and Com, so it only triggers GA with Hittites, England and Portugal. Spain needs two WoWs to trigger GA without horsies.
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