HOW TO REINFORCE

[cmdishr]

Yea yea, well the next time I....never mind.

[Mo D]

Yeah, I remember the debate now Fried. They did want to remove reinforcement (which I don't agree with, if you haven't noticed).

Here's the argument that should put this baby to bed once and for all:

Here's why you need to be able to reinforce in Simultaneous MP (as opposed to SP) - the double-move. The double-move does not exist in SP, so no need for " on the fly reinforcement". It does, however, exist in MP and the defender must have a way to cope. Now Fried's gonna say "sentry nets!" to which I'm going to say "Shaddup Fried". Sentry nets are useful in SP or MP. The double-move is unique to the offense of a simultaneous MP game. As such, you must have a defensive counter which is also unique to the simultaneous MP game. This is where "reinforcing on the fly" comes in.

Now, as I said before, the C3C bug associated with this sucks and should be fixed. The fix is not to remove reinforcement entirely, however. That's taking the easy way out. Fix it the right way, but leave it in.

You players out there know you love the rush you get as someone surprises you with a double-move and you scream at your monitor and rush ya arse off to get those reinforcements moving in. This is part of what makes the MP game appealing and unique.

[synseer]

umm this could also be said about the 'picket fence' , the player with galley atacks could double move land and attack. my counter is to align troops on my coast so he is unable to do the double move and land, and when i use that tactic i often put troops on the coast where i DONT want my enemy to land, but leave some spaces where he can, which arent next to my citys.and normally where i have a stack of units to hit his with when he does land

also about the empty city bug, this has happened to me twice, in the same game with the same person.and i was quite fustrated.because the first time i did it, after it happened he moved a ton of units out his city behind that to hit my force. pop rushed and moved some units in. the second time it happened, i had a jag healing outside his border which i moved in to take the city.

but Mo why would you rule in favour of the defender?
why is the rule of playing on after the empty city bug should favour the defender?

why let the defender exploit one bug with reinforce, then exploit another with allowing him to live when he should be dead.

[FriedrichPsitalon]

So much for putting the baby to bed.

[Don K Hotay]

Using "G" to reinforce defending cities is pretty nifty . It's good that we have this feature to use because of what Mo outlined above in relation to countering double moves. But to allow a single unit to thwart an entire stack by simply moving into a city at the right time is bullnuts. It should come down to numbers. If the defender is completely overwhelmed by an attacking force, but is saved by chance by the reinforcement, the defender should be aware when to concede defeat. It's not entirely subjective concluding how many units are left and which ones had their attackpoints taken away....especially when playing with those you know. Conceding in such an instance should not be brushed off so easily.

[cmdishr]

So DK,

At what point do you concede the battle....10 vs 1, 20 vs 1 or 5 vs 1. And what unit combinations should we consider certain kills celts vs warriors, jags vs spears. I guess the designers did not intend for reinforcement, but guess what it exists so therefore until that little sign that says "you suck" pops up I wouldnt consider it a kill

[Mo D]

cmdishr said:

until that little sign that says "you suck" pops up I wouldnt consider it a kill

Yeah, what he said.

Again, the bug sucks. I've been screwed by it numerous times. I know how you feel. However, the only objective way to solve the dispute is to say YOU MUST TAKE THE CITY. There is no other way to do it objectively. Like Dish said, we've all seen 2 spears hold off 10 swords. Where do we draw the line as to what is considered "overwhelming force"? That's a judgement call. We cannot have rules that rely on judgement calls. Take the city and your opponent is then dead. It's imperfect, but it's all we have.

[FunkyChicken]

Maybe it wasnt designed to happen but seen as civ is losely based on history i can remember certain battles for cities and the cities been reinforced before they were overtaken by the invading force.

[Don K Hotay]

I'm not sure if there are any rules on doing the same moves after reloads. I know that players agree to execute the moves done before the reload as best as possible....sometimes even going so far as to disband units and what not. I agree it would be too much to put a rule into place on this reinforcement/screw over the attacker with one unit deal ;D. As for ratios and all, all that should be considered at the time, but conceding should not be out of the question.

[Mo D]

Sounds good, Don. You concede and I'll play on till you REALLY kill me. How's that?

[Don K Hotay]

Maybe I'll line my coast to prevent that situation from ever occuring.

[Mo D]

LOL touche'.

Everyone just loves to give me *&$% about that, don't they?

[synseer]

i think people generally just like giving you $%!^
anyway ;D

[TheBrain]

I am with those who say that g move is a valid strategy i mean its better to be able to move in while u under attack than if only the faster cpu and faster fingers decide if u die or not.
I am wondering if there are or will be really players who are able to use that stop an army with 1 unit bug. If i got it right that would mean let your 1 defender die and then move one unit in. I think a player who tries that will die in 9 of 10 of his tries ;D

[Don K Hotay]

Spent time today replicating this bug with the help of another ladder player, Dennis3240. Out of 6 trials, I was able to thwart his jag stacks (ranging from 15-30 each trial) with this reinforcement deal. Initally, his stacks would be attacking just 2 fortified units within the city. Once he defeated the final unit, I would either press "G" or "cntrl-shift-G" and reinforce units 1 at a time. At most, like for the 30 jag stack, it took 4 tries to succeed....reinforced 4 units. So at the end of the "attack", there are still 15-20 jags full health, 2 movement points, but no ability to attack. Only 6 trials, and I agree it's very risky, but reproducable.