Official Ladder MPTournament.biq

[SirPartyMan]

Dear Friends:

The Ladder Admin Board is proud to announce the 1.1 release of its first "Official Approved" scenario file, a modification of the MPTournament file. Based on a survey we made earlier this year, it was decided that the majority of ladder members wanted the option of a game where 8 players could play on a tiny or small world using the 40% water-60% land model of the Firaxis MPTourney scenario WITHOUT some of the undesirable changes introduced by that scenario by Firaxis in the 1.22 release.

We recommend that you download our authorized MPTournament.biq and replace the Firaxis version with this retaining the exact name MPTournament.biq. This is necessary to gain the 40% water/60% land benefit already mentioned.

Also the majority of our members in that poll supported the idea of reducing the strength of the two Civilization power houses - Sumeria and Aztecs, especially for FFA games. This has been done. Please read below for information on the exact changes.

CHANGES in the OFFICIAL Ladder MPTournament.biq:

-Sumeria is now COM/SCI, Enkidus are 10 shields, starts with Alphabet and Bronze. This was one of two significant "nerfings" done. Sumeria (and the other nerfed civilization, Aztecs) are the only civilizations that can claim all of the following: Guaranteed UU, cheapened UU as compared to its base unit, highly useful UU, Agricultural trait. This combination of abilities (as opposed to the Inca, whose UU is more expensive than it should be, or the Celts/Iroquois, who are not assured of their UU and in the case of the Celts, is more expensive.) Repeated tests have shown that Sumeria is still significantly dangerous, but is not capable of simply building a city every other tile and overrunning you with Enkidus. Sumeria is also competitive in the rush to Philosophy thanks to the trait change.

-Aztecs are now MIL/REL, Jaguars unchanged, starts with Warrior Code and Ceremonial Burial.
See above - this is where the Aztecs were intended to be post-Conquests.

-Japan is now MIL/AGR, Samurai unchanged, starts with Pottery and The Wheel. This was done to give another civ the "MIL/AGR" combination, and potentially bring a "fringe" civ that can almost expect to utilize its UU into the fore. (8 players on a Tiny or Small map will significantly increase research speeds compared to Standard.)

-Korea is now AGR/SCI, Hwacha is now a catapult (Stats) with lethal land/sea bombardment buildable at Mathematics, starts with Pottery and Bronze.
Korea was given the missing trait combo "AGR/SCI." The Hwach'a was moved to mathematics in order to give Korea some chance at its UU in a standard game. Please note that over 500 tests were run on this unit, and conclusive results were found. On defense, the Hwach'a does NOT kill - it is for all purposes a catapult when firing defensively. It is only offensively that this unit has any real impact, although the unit would be excellent at "picking off" injured survivors of failed attacks. Its real use is to make Korea a viable "anti pillager" civ - as the Hwach'a (or rather, 3 or 4 working in concert) is now the bane of Impis, Enkidus, Jags and Chasquis trying to tear up Korean land. Effectively, Korea is the first true "builder civ" capable of enforcing the security of its lands.

-Rome is now MIL/IND, Legionnaires unchanged, starts with Masonry and Warrior Code. Rome is one of two civilizations which are the other extreme from Sumeria/Aztecs: They have NO assured UU, and none of the three arguable "power traits - AGR, REL, IND." Further, they are not capable of a 1 Wonder Golden Age. In effect, they have nothing to reccomend them except sentimental and novelty value. It is hoped that this change will bring more interest to Rome; players are invited to "prove" that this makes Rome broken - good luck.

-Hittites are now IND/EXP, Three-Man Chariots 25 shields, starts with Pottery and Masonry. Like the Romans, the Hittites are played currently only for novelty value - but are even more rare, as they shared the "No power trait, no assured UU" problem but suffered as well from a slightly overpriced UU with an unclear utility. They have had their COM trait exchanged for IND, and had the cost of their UU lowered by 5 to put them more in line "cost-to-utlity" wise with all other Unique Units.

-"Retain culture on city capture" REMOVED.
-Scientific Great Leaders RESTORED.
-Ancient Cavalry original stats RESTORED.
-MapMaking still allows map trades.


It is sincerely hoped that all players will test all of the changed civilizations with an open mind and attitude (not just making up your mind after one game where X got a great or terrible start) and provide useful, informative feedback. Please post your opinions in this thread. In two to three weeks from now, we will evaluate which of any features are still a cause for concern and will possibly make changes to our official MPTournament.biq at that time.

And lastly, for those that say we should use only the "base game rules," it may ease your mind to know that no less than three different Firaxis/Breakaway affiliates who were involved with the Conquest beta tested and/or concurred with all changes made to this file.

Happy tiny/small-map-8-player games! Please find the file ready and available for download HERE:

www.i-challengeu.com/ladder/MPTournament.biq

Sincerely.
SirPartyMan
CIV3Players Head Admin

PS: Thanks to our Retired Vice Admin Emeritus Friedrich Psitalon for developing this modified scenario in collaboration with the Ladder Admin team.

[FriedrichPsitalon]

::sits down and prepares his half-dozen rebuttal speeches and waits for the coming storm::

;D

[Swissy]

It all seems sensible for what we want to use the scenario for, having a better variety of early power civs and the ability to load up the smaller maps with players.

[FriedrichPsitalon]

Not only that....

::begins speaking carefully::

With the "maturation" of Conquests and no immediate, obvious successors on the horizon - at least according to what has and has NOT been coming from Firaxis - we may all need to accept that in the coming future (certainly not immediately or even "soon" just someday) that we will, for the life and health of the ladder, need to become more accustomed to playing "Ladder-made" patches.

We have to do SOMETHING after a certain point to keep people around, after all, until CIV 4 comes out...

Whenever that may be.

[cmdishr]

I played this scenario and do recommend you give it a shot. New civs came into play, I played Hitties and found they definitely are worth considering now. I didnt realize how much I missed being able to trade maps. One player played Korea and wasnt that impressed but the new traits and early UU have to be considered, a lethal bombardment is a nice counter to the picket fence.

[FriedrichPsitalon]

With Korea, it depends on what you're looking for - if you're looking for a new "killer/attacker" civ, there's nothing new or impressive here. Korea really is designed to prosecute units in its borders - they are THE "castle" civ. Projecting force with Hwacha's is tough because you have to kill every unit in the stack in one turn or they'll all heal - that's a lot of Hwach'a - but within your own borders? Forget it, a good road network and a few sentinels and even the Zulu or Sumerians will give it up and look for easier targets.

[TheBrain]

Very good job .
I like all the changes alot especially the changes to Korea are a great idea. seems like a nice civ for former ptw Carthage players like me.
If there will be more changes in future i would just like to give Maya the ability to build standard archers too and not only those shit javs.

[FriedrichPsitalon]

I would be less inclined to give the Maya that ability; they already possess what I think most people would argue are two of the three strongest traits. Their UU's capability is also quite spiffy (not to mention unique) and so their "limitation" of being somewhat resource dependent or using an expensive archer seems quite fair.

That being said, if people gave a strong, uniform response to cut JT costs or add archers as well (I can't imagine they would, but it's possible....) we would certainly take that suggestion into account. (Read: Considering it, not neccessarily guarenteeing it. )

[RedPhoenix]

2 other civs that definately should be looked over I think are Russia and Germany, Russia for most of its time defintely was not a very scientific civ(at the least not advanced in science), agricultural fits most of their history a lot better. It also makes russia a usable civ in ancient start games with expansionist and agri for traits it is much like America was in PTW, a trait civ. This change makes it viable for use but definately won't overpower it.


Another civ that is worth looking at is Germany, they are considered on par or near Korea in usefullnes generally. One small change would rise them from a useless civ to a subpar civ, plus it would make a lot of sense historically too. That is to give Germany industrious trait to replace scientific.

Now these changes make random civs a bunch more fun when you are not stuck with a piece of butt civ, but it still won't lift germany from the nutstiest civ position, but atleast it brings them closer to the competition. Also it will yet add a bit more variety to civ selection.

[synseer]

ut-uh red wants to ruin this Mpt too

i think everything is ok how it is(even though i only agreed with the sumeria and aztecs traits being changed)

[FriedrichPsitalon]

When the original changes were made to MPTournament.biq, the concerns of players who wanted to see the biq changed as little as possible were duly noted and understood. What we were aiming for at this point was something that was largely the same as before, but more balanced.

More radical changes like what has been suggested are certainly possible, but fairly unlikely at this time. Even the most radical change - Korea - was carefully considered before we made it. It was judged that the trait swap alone would not make Korea desirable, and rather than deprive players of a currently popular trait combination - AGR/SCI - something could be done to enhance the civ, and also bring something to the ancient era which it currently lacked - lethal bombardment. With Korea we now genuinely have a civ capable of playing "castle" under nearly any circumstances, though obviously there are still many limitaitons that civ faces, particularly in projecting force outside its own borders.

While it might be fun to tinker with Germany or another civilization, I think that is better left for later days and other modders, at least until the vast majority of players feel the need for some sort of change.

[donaldkipper]

i agree all changes should be considered and tested in depth, but i think the problem we have here is the limitation of 40% water to MPTournament.bic


just making a different scenario with the rules desired isnt possible

[FunkyChicken]

Could always just overwrite the MPTourney biq as long as u keep the normal one and inform others of what the changes are

[FriedrichPsitalon]

funkychicken said:

Could always just overwrite the MPTourney biq as long as u keep the normal one and inform others of what the changes are

This is specifically what SPM has requested NOT be done to avoid confusion and version problems, and indeed the entire point of the administrative effort to create a balanced, reasonable ancient start scenario that everyone can live with and use.

[FunkyChicken]

And the ladder admins cant stop people playing what they want to.If everyone is happy to play with the changes you cant exactly stop them.