Soupy
Warrior
NO SOUP FOR YOU, BACK OF LINE!!!
Posts: 46
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Post by Soupy on Jan 29, 2008 23:19:50 GMT -5
Who's going to take care of all these unreported matches?
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Post by rodrigom on Jan 29, 2008 23:34:27 GMT -5
I abstain
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NOS
Warrior
after i get done this is what you will want to do.
Posts: 31
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Post by NOS on Jan 30, 2008 1:05:39 GMT -5
I for one applaud the decision on avo's part to do this so i reported my loses from time of vote on ty ;D
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Post by Magzi on Jan 30, 2008 2:36:30 GMT -5
Gave up playing futures years ago, too many scraps etc going on then! Bar a PBEM - have given up the rest of civ now, so can't really vote. Happy civving....
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Post by sdn26 on Jan 30, 2008 4:16:26 GMT -5
the prob is that rules in future are different from ladder...and incompatible!! imo: 1 The first and 3th solution Future=open match----l think on one hand ladder will miss a lot of funny and fair player, in the other hand future will became full of lot of drop and will lost some good think that came from ladder
2 Will be quite impossible treated future as normal ladder matches cause is not. l start to play future very early when future was still treated as normal ladder match(l think was one of the future players, but was very long time ago ) and l remember then reason cause l stop. At the end 99% of games we had 2 case: 1 there was someone hopeless that want fight a game already lost so none want to go on but u know ladder rules(for conceded all must have same idea)--- 2 one or two have bad terrain and say after 4 t we will loose for sure and they drop
l heard that in Civ4 are building a new system to report ....l suggest to create new rules for future..we cant have same rules for ancient and future.
Now l don't play future anymore so l cant give any clue about how to made...but some vet future like xxcc can give the right solution
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Post by lansing on Jan 30, 2008 4:23:35 GMT -5
The ladder rules work find for future, have for ages, and the arguments you make suggesting they don't are absurd. So one guy is still having fun, wants to play, but everyone else just wants to quit because they consider it a win and so they essentially just quit. So? The 'winners' get no reports because they're quiting the game early, I don't see why this matters or why its even an arguement against it being a ladder match. The player fighting as the underdog is enjoying and is wanting to play on but everyone else quits, they shouldn't get reports in that instance and if anything I feel bad for the guy still enjoying the game who has it cut short, not the people quitting. As for quitting for bad terrain 4 or 5 turns in, its a loss. Just go make reports, start another game, seriously reports take seconds, its not that hard.
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Post by StrictlyRockers on Jan 30, 2008 5:51:13 GMT -5
Votes for reporting and maintaining consistency. Good job, Avo.
BTW, I should be back in action in full gamer mode in a couple of weeks, and I will be itching for some future action.
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Post by sdn26 on Jan 30, 2008 6:53:14 GMT -5
As for quitting for bad terrain 4 or 5 turns in, its a loss. Just go make reports, start another game, seriously reports take seconds, its not that hard. The pro is f one mate dropp he take a loss but all team will take the consequence.....do u must report cause one of u team mate drop... the evidence its that nowdays, how Avo say, future are not respect ladder rule...but the same guy that no report in future report in ancient...so there is an evidence rules that work in ancient not work fine in future...it's not people prob. a lot of very respect ladder no report in future....Another evidence its that ladder statics are usuless in future. For exaple one of the best future playerxxcc have about 50% ...l rember that him have more than 60% before he stop play ancient . For this l think we need another system that work for future and for ancient
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Soupy
Warrior
NO SOUP FOR YOU, BACK OF LINE!!!
Posts: 46
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Post by Soupy on Jan 30, 2008 9:33:49 GMT -5
the unfortunate problem that this ladder has is we try and squeeze multiple types of game play into one ranking system. Ancient, UU, Future, BWS, etc. etc. Most ladders only allow 1 type of ladder play...for example you wouldn't have a ladder where players play both spades and hearts. These are very similiar card games but differ in suit and a few other alterations. Or you wouldn't have a POOL ladder where the players play both 8 ball and 9 ball. It very difficult for the civ3players ladder to control ranking, skill level, win streaks because each player must play the scenario of the people above them to improve in rank. Rabbit is ranked #1 and I have never seen him play in a future match. Does this mean we should force Rabbit to play future or to make other future players to play ancients to ever achieve #1 status. It's not Rabbit's fault. Maybe its time to split the ladder into 2 seperate ladders www.myleague.com/civ3players/ancient and www.myleague.com/civ3players/future. I don't play for reports anymore because its becoming a big pain in the ass to hunt down players that don't report and the unreported match system on this ladder is VERY VERY BROKEN...
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Post by sdn26 on Jan 30, 2008 10:40:25 GMT -5
well if was more than 10.000 two ladder ill be a good choice but we are les than 300 so will not good have 2 system...its hard find active TD and adm for one system will be impossibole do it for 2. Imo one system that will be a good compromise can be find if we work on it...but dunno if people want to waste time on it
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Post by Avogadro on Jan 30, 2008 10:53:01 GMT -5
I will handle the non reports for the next month until these are ironed out.
We have also been offered a new software to run our league reporting. We are lookign into it but wich to clean this up first.
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Post by DANGEROUS on Jan 30, 2008 11:54:26 GMT -5
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Post by wildfire on Jan 30, 2008 14:14:20 GMT -5
Laughable. Who's calling them ladder games? A bunch of players get together and play open futures, so where's the problem? Everyone knows it.....a few report whores got upset 'cause they can't get their stats up so what did they do? They try and have everyone believe we're passing this off as non report ladder games. Get over it. Here's what I post when hosting a future: "Chup's future 123" Care to join?
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Post by SnowOwl on Jan 30, 2008 14:36:56 GMT -5
Voted for option 3. I think players should be free to decide if they want to have a ladder game or not. If they do not care about reporting let them play but without ladder tag. Personally, I have my short list of future players i will not play in ladder ancient games with. They are either rude, show bad sportsmanship or are quitters.
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Post by Zardoz on Jan 30, 2008 21:14:51 GMT -5
I tried my best to stay out of this since futures don't affect me, but when knowledgeable and influential people such as Myth and Wildfire start whining about report whores and the ladder being broken I feel compelled to respond.
The ladder works fine for weeding out people who won't play by the rules IF THOSE PEOPLE ARE REPORTED AND THE REPORTS ACTED UPON.
The purpose of the ladder is not rank. It is about creating an environment conducive to fairness and fun for the players.
Rank and personal stats, while fun, do not mean much in an environment where those playing the most games will inevitably hold the higher ranks in spite of ability. Rank and stats are interesting byproducts of the reporting system, but they are NOT the reason for it or for the ladder. Reports are necessary because they are the currency of accountability on the ladder. People who do not play fair, who drop or quit because of bad land, bad civ or bad luck need to be "encouraged" to report so there is accountability for their actions. People who let those morons into their games or on their teams need to be "encouraged" to report so that they will be accountable for helping to perpetuate bad behavior. People who do not report after said encouragement need to be further encouraged by boxing. If that does not solve the problem they can take a permanent vacation from the ladder. This will encourage others to report if they do not want similar treatment.
Reporting is a simple matter. The only excuse I can see for not reporting almost immediately is not knowing whether your team will win. My suggestion? FIND OUT! If someone doesn't report to you, tell them to! Kick butt and take names!
As for open futures? No problem! They are, by definition, not ladder. Play them, have fun and, if people don't play right, forget it. You have no way to hold them accountable other than DNPing them. At least with ladder players you have a communication and accountability system to discourage bad behavior.
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