New Rules concerning unreported matches

[Maxfin]

Usually if someone is subbed in teamgames, sub will get win and subbed will get losses. It's not rules but I think thats a common way.

What comes to MD's comments we wait every player to do nonreport if they don't get report. There is no other way to give penalty for nonreporter. We keep stats about nonreporters and we will give heavy penalties for players who don't report games.

[cmdishr]

Ok, I agree with that, but I hear "its not official" and "I think" it may be a good idea to make it official. I know I subbed once, we won and the report went to the original player, the comment was you didnt play enough turns to get a win. Considering the rate of drops lately, it might be a good idea to get an official ruling on this.

[MasterDisaster]

Maxfin: I think this is getting completly unreal.
My point was that if it was a normal player there was no reason to bring it to the board,but as an admin should have higher standards there might very well be a reason to bring it to the board especially because it was not entirly a non report issue but also..... (won't continue here) Anyways if you and so many others think it does not belong here I won't continue it here...

[Maxfin]

Person you are attacking is in long holiday so there is no way for him to defend in here against this attacks. Plz keep it prvt. If you got problems about his actions mail SPM about them.

[SirPartyMan]

Dear Friends:

Non-reports are one of the most unpleasant aspects of this job.

There are two basic categories of non-reports:

a) unchallenged victories - in these cases the non-reporter simply forgot to report, but doesn't contest anything. If you think this is the case, a reminder letter is advisable.

b) contested victories - in these cases there is a dispute over who won, or whether proper procedures were followed, etc. In these cases, both sides of the story must be heard. Reminder letters won't work here. An Admin must arbitrate the dispute.

When you file a non-report, without one second's delay, a copy of that non-report complaint is sent to both the Admin in charge that week and the person you have challenged.

The onus is on them to either report (if they forgot to), or to send the Admin their side of the story. When this happens we then usually need to send out another letter or more asking questions, searching for facts and proof.

So we usually wait at least 48 hours for the person who has been challenged on the non-report to respond. We also have to check if they reported but didn't email us. Sometimes people report 10 minutes after the non-report complaint is filed.

Anyway, when appropriate we will award the win as being "uncontested". So uncontested reports are usually cleared in about 3-4 days time, allowing some processing time for the volunteer Ladder Admin (some of us have full time jobs) to do their work. If you think about it, this is a complicated process sometimes involving follow up on many emails. Most of us keep a folder with the letters and a spreadsheet to monitor progress. During the one-week stint that Ladder admins serve we might have to process anywhere from 25 to 50 non-reports. That's quite a workload.

It is not unusual for a contested non-report to take a week with all the emails and arguments going back and forth. Finally the Ladder Admin has to make the call and it can go three ways - the plaintiff can win, the defendant can win, or its judged unprovable and nobody wins (a tie essentially - with no reports necessary).

Hope this little explanation explains why non-reports aren't as simple as some people seem to think.

Best,
SPM

[MasterDisaster]

Sounds very sensible SPM...
Should have taken a different approach with the nealcain issue.Sometimes it gets heated up to easily.
Sorry folks.

[SirPartyMan]

Dear Friends:

As to Cmdishr's question regarding whether the sub reports or the original player, we are talking about team games here. Our policy has been that in general the sub doesn't report (unless that was the agreement at the time of substitution), the original player reports (only if there's a loss, of course).

Common sense tells me that if the original player played very few turns, the substitute might logically "take over" the reporting responsibility. If the sub comes in late in the game, winning or losing should be credited to the original player.

Every game situation is different and some are not clear cut, so this should be discussed and agreed upon at the time the substitute enters the game. Without some agreement, I would rule (if I were handling non-report duty) that the original player is the one held accountable for the loss.

Best,
SPM

[Gracchus]

I have a suggestion regarding subs and win/loss reporting.

I think that the rules of baseball (pitcher's W/L) create a viable model for application here.

In baseball, a win is credited to the starting pitcher only if he has pitched at least five complete innings, leaves the game with the lead and his team holds the lead for the remainder of the game. A win is credited to the relief pitcher if, while he is still in the game, his team takes the lead and stays ahead for the remainder of the game.

This could be applied as follows: If a player has completed more than half the turns, and is subbed out while his/her team is ahead, he/she gets the win. If, when the sub takes over his/her team is losing, and the sub's team takes the lead to win while the sub is playing, I think the sub should get the W.

Conversely, if the sub takes over while his/her team is winning, but they end up losing, the sub takes the loss. However, if the sub's team is already losing, and they lose, the original player gets the loss.

Too bad there's no saves.

[nealcain]

:sigh:

I can't even go on vacation without controversy...


Mr. Masterdisaster.....I apologize for forgetting to report the match before I left...I have a bad habit of not writing names down...mostly because by the end of a game, if I have to report, its only to a couple people. When I do forget people simply remind me and its not an issue...if you look at my record, you will be able to tell that I report my losses. Your name was forgotten when I reported to the other two...that alone should have told you it was a mistake on my part and not being vindictive for whatever reason... I don't really even know you to be vindictive

As max told you I'm on vacation...I'm still on vacation actually, but my bro has dial up up here in Maine and I decided to check my email... All I will say to your overreaction is that is exactly what it is....an overreaction and its part my fault, so enough said.

In regards to the non report issue, on my last stint, I had over 120 non reports(in about a week) that I had to follow up on. Many could have been avoided if peeps would have sent a friendly reminder too because over half were taken care of before I took action, but I still had to go thru every single one to check....what a drag but its part of the job of being an administrator, but keep that in mind before you go on a tirade. We are human too.

I haven't read your remarks against me because I'm on dialup and its kinda slow, but several people emailed me and said you weren't very nice. I hope in the future that you think twice and get all the info correct before you start slamming someone. I'm going back on vacation now.


Nealcain

[PJ]

MasterDisaster said:

There shouldn't be such a high number of non reports?
People who don't report should get into the penalty box asap instead of the usual 'let's wait if he/she files a non report and if they don't I won't report' attitude.
THAT's the reason we have so many nonreports.No risk not to report....

Other than that you are proly right that the way non reports are being handled now there might be dozens a day.From 10 wins I averagly get around 5 reports.Pretty lame.

gotta say you playing the wrong people then MD. in the past month i have only had 1 person not report there losses to me, and i didnt even report it to admins cuz it just aint worth it to me to take there time for 1 report.

if it happened more regularly, i might report them. i track every game i play in a notebook to help me know who i need to report and who owes them to me. also lets me track who hasnt reported and perhaps i dont play them again.

[lastride63]

This is getting to be a big problem. In the last week of play, i have 8 players who have not given reports. WTF is happening here? And most of the ones who owe reports are established ladder members Why all of a sudden with the not bothering to report? Is it so difficult to write down the names of all players and when you die or game is over, just go and do reports right away??? Come on people, this is getting ridiculous

[ajerzguy]

Everyone should report nonreporters. If you don't people will think it's ok not to report and there would be no record of how often they don't report.

When a person is accepted to the ladder a copy of the reporting rules should be included and they should have to acknowledge that they read it in the same manner you have to when you register in a tourney. I believe the vast majority of new members don't read any of the ladder rules at anytime prior to getting into the action. Reporting is a fundamental aspect of the ladder that should be strictly enforced.

Everyone has a draft in their email, just draft an email and fill in the new names and paste that into the details of the nonreport when you file one.

Enough from me.

[Argammon]

I have until now only done 1 non report out of about 6.
The main reason for this is that the page often loads slowly and that it is to much of a hassle to go through all the nonreport trouble
However if one and the same person decides not to report on more than one case,and even more important:
If I can remember it
I'll file nonreports.

[ENGLAND]

Does that damm bomb ever go i was away from computer for a week about 2 months ago, and got that bomb next to my name. I have reported every match ever since then but it dont seem to go, as cool as it cool, dont want a non reporting rep. Also was looking through the ladder and it seems "dude" has it next to his name even tho he has been idle for about 40 days.

[Mo D]

No, the bomb never goes away by itself. It doesn't really hurt my feelings, either. Learn to report and you won't have that problem.

Now, that being said, I have no problem taking the bomb away in special cases. If you have truly changed your ways over a long period of time (I'd say that 2 or 3 months is a long time), then send me (or one of the other admins) an e-mail stating your case and I'll review it. If I (we) find that you have truly been a "good citizen" since you received the bomb, I (we) MAY remove the bomb next to your name.