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Post by CanuckSoldier on Jul 15, 2008 8:46:55 GMT -5
Yes right now we only support team vs team games, and they are simple, if your on the winning team you gain skill points and get credited with a win, how many skill points depends on the skill of the losing team. If a team with an average skill of 1550 beats a team of average 1850 then you will gain more points, but beating a noob team of average 1250 gains you very little..
But then that is the point of a skill system, to move up you have to show you are better than people that have a higher skill rating. "Noob hunting" will get you very little on the new league except a high win/loss ratio and still be rated the 150th player in skill....no name in lights for these players in the top 20 list.
CS
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Post by jecyll on Jul 15, 2008 19:23:01 GMT -5
so if your not a top 20 player you can just forget about rank?is that how civ 4 got to be known as an elitist game???
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Post by Yilar on Jul 15, 2008 19:41:19 GMT -5
Well rank has always been a joke on cases. If you are good enough you will get rank #1 on the new ladder.
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Post by jecyll on Jul 15, 2008 20:04:38 GMT -5
well im not good enough
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Post by Avogadro on Jul 15, 2008 22:49:32 GMT -5
Since we like 80 people.... I expect we will all get a turn at #1 as usual.
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Post by Yilar on Jul 16, 2008 4:51:12 GMT -5
Also you have to stay fairly active to keep top rank.
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Post by CanuckSoldier on Jul 16, 2008 8:32:06 GMT -5
If you stay active and play often, the glicko2 skill system is a very accurate messure of your average skill from game to game, if that skill turns out to be 1750 for instance, and that puts you around 8th to 15th as a random example, then that is how good you are, end of story, if you want to move up you need to get better at the game you play. This skill system has been used in international chess federations for years, and many sports/games use it too. Civ4 is no more elistist than Civ3 is, personalities determine that not how we as a league determine your skill and the number beside your name.
CS
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Post by CanuckSoldier on Jul 16, 2008 8:56:06 GMT -5
And also, for the first 2-3 weeks the rankings will vary significantly, because everyone will start with 1500 skill and a RD of 250, the system doesn't "know" anyones true skill, so it will take that long of people playing other people repeatedly for the system to anilyze players skill and then it will settle down and shifts will be small and based on real sustained skill increases or decreases.
CS
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Post by LuckyLukeNJJ on Jul 16, 2008 19:46:13 GMT -5
No it doesn't necessarily count as a lose, but also not always as a win. For a cton the first place finisher will always get a win and the last place finisher will always get a lost. In the middle will depend the skill rating of the other players in the game. If there are enough higher skilled players that finish below you then it will be win, but if enough lower skilled players finish ahead of you then it would be a lose. To make this simpler to figure out, we base it on if you gain or lose skill from the game. If your skill goes up, then it is a win, but if it goes down then it was a lose. Sorry but this report system makes the new ladder useless in my opinon as ctons are the most poplar games and then win/loss percantage is the most important stat as rank and skill level are useless as everyone knows. And why btw we get told this important fact after decison is allready done ? so pls make it possible to get wins and losses as it was or i fear this will ruin more then it will improve ad that would be very sad. Greets Lucky
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Post by Yilar on Jul 16, 2008 20:11:22 GMT -5
How is getting 7 "wins" from winning 1 game anything but retarded? You can super inflate your win percentage to 80%+ by winning a couple of ctons np. Skill will make more sense now than it ever did, and so will win percent, as beating newbs and losing to vets won't be counted as a win!
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Post by Zardoz on Jul 16, 2008 22:01:21 GMT -5
Sorry but this report system makes the new ladder useless in my opinon as ctons are the most poplar games and then win/loss percantage is the most important stat as rank and skill level are useless as everyone knows. Lulu, skill level and rank are useless in Case's, as everybody knows. That's the whole point behind the new system. Now rank will be more accurately determined by a meaningful skill level calculation, rank will finally mean something and we will be less likely to have Goddess up there accurately making fun of our new ranking system. I dispute that win/loss is the most accurate stat. People start off here as noob, losing 2-3 times as many games as they win. By the time they get to 6000 games, they may be winning 2-3 times as many as they lose, but their total percentage will still be fairly low. I actually think the most accurate stat at Case's is "Highest Skill Level Attained." When I rank players by that stat, it starts to make sense. And that is using Case's current, flawed skill calculation. I'm sorry you feel this way, but it was no secret that wins, skill and rank would be determined differently. Please give it a chance. Knowing your proficiency at this game, I have no doubt that you will soon be in contention for #1. Also realize that the stats on the new system will reflect the type of game played. You will be able to see rank/records based on the type of game: UU, fcton, anc randoms, QC, 3cc, MPT, futures, and the other popular scenarios without having the numbers diluted by those who do not play your particular game.
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Post by CanuckSoldier on Jul 17, 2008 8:21:46 GMT -5
LL, I respect your opinion but you have to realize, ctons were the hardest Civ MP game to adapt to the Glicko2 skill system. When you have 5 players starting a cton with 2050, 1650, 1850, 1450, and 1250 as skill values, and they finish in some order we have to be able to calculate how skill points are distributed at the end of the game according to order and who finished ahead of who, remembering that this skill system rewards beating higher skilled players and does not reward beating lower skilled players. So if you place second in this cton, but all players that finished below you in the game are also lower skilled players, you are not going to get rewarded for beating players that you should beat hands down anyway.
So the only logical way of assigning wins and losses in a cton is based apon the premise that we reward beating better skilled players. And even with this we are generous to give the top player a win even if he doesn't beat a better player in the game. If you can envison some better way of adapting the Glicko system in ctons let us know, but remember that we can't redesign the basic code of the glicko system as it is engrained in every bit of code in the league.
CS
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Post by antiquity on Jul 18, 2008 0:41:16 GMT -5
well, i think this new system will be exciting and fun, it almost makes me want to play civ full time again and rank monger day and night. I haven't the time though. one draw back to this system is for undetermined length of time i think skill ratings will be off, as they balance out and find their correct level. The more people play the more accurate this system will be. Early on for example i could see a good vet on a losing streak have a bad skill rating, and a noob on a hot streak with a good skill rating, however, over time , this system i do believe will be far superior to case's.
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Post by jecyll on Jul 18, 2008 5:59:31 GMT -5
the people who playplay for fun and playing for rank was fun. i never even looked at skill rateings till they were bought up here they never mattered. i dont give a rats ass about skill ratings and most here dont
lulus right itll probably kill the ladder
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Post by sdn26 on Jul 18, 2008 7:10:18 GMT -5
imo ladder rank sucks...so the new one will be better for sure.
l would like to see somethink like CCC rank....if we return to elimination mode on CCC that rank will be the best
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